All armor tank companies.
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All armor tank companies.
So its been brought to my attention all armor tank companies seem to be dominating the tournament scene. Is this a fact? Has power gaming finally began to poison FoW...are the rules flawed? I spoke to Rufus and he told me an all tank list demolished all of its opponents in the last tournament. This topic arose when I ask if he planed to get some infantry for his LW Soviet tank company. He said no way. Anything(Infantry,recon,AT guns, artillery) but tanks are a waste. A shit load of tanks will destroy anything, even in terrain heavy board. Ive never faced an all tank list. On an open plain, yes I could see armor rolling over anything but other tanks. But in a terrain heavy board I would think AT guns and well equipped infantry would have an excellent chance to stop an all tank list. Lets have some comments here.
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rokassan- Internet bully
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Registration date: 2008-02-27

Re: All armor tank companies.
Rufus just likes the easy button. I played 3 games against his soviet list and did very well. I used my 3rd armor tank list and almost beat him with no reserves coming in until turn 4. Let's do the math, I held off 19 tanks with 8 shermans and 6 priests. Not to mention a medal of honor winning Sherman observer tank. Good game overall. Couple rolls here or there and it could've gone either way. Second game I fudge on deployment and he won turn 2 against my FSSF infantry company. Third game I almost won, but my fearless infantry couldn't pass motivation to Wreck face on a stupid tank. Overall all tank lists are nice, but a balanced list wins every time assuming all things are equal... dice were the deciding factor for most of our games.
As far as power gaming in FOW, my question is how? This is one of the few games where I feel there really isn't cheese. Hell I welcome king tigers now that I know how to handle those suckers. There are some rock paper scissors occasions, but they are few and far between.
As far as tanks dominating the tourney scene, I wouldn't know. Ask Dan. He goes to large tourneys. I feel much more comfortable facing a tank horde after my games with rufus so I'm not super worried about it.
As far as power gaming in FOW, my question is how? This is one of the few games where I feel there really isn't cheese. Hell I welcome king tigers now that I know how to handle those suckers. There are some rock paper scissors occasions, but they are few and far between.
As far as tanks dominating the tourney scene, I wouldn't know. Ask Dan. He goes to large tourneys. I feel much more comfortable facing a tank horde after my games with rufus so I'm not super worried about it.

KingdomCome- Chaos God
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Re: All armor tank companies.
Is it just a local thing? Because from what I have read it sounds like Infantry have been dominating the tourny scene on the international/national level. Keep hearing how overpowered British infantry lists are and have been placing heavily and high in the tournaments. Another trend that has been obvious is that.... well Americans suck. They seem to always do badly..doesn't mean they can't win, but at tournies they usually fair badly so they are not very competitive. The power levels of armies though really are based on balance issues with army lists and specific army rules, not with the games rules itself. Soviets have become very powerful in large part because they have gotten a shit ton of content dedicated mostly towards them with late war. Soviet tank companies I would imagine being popular due to them having such great variety and power for cost, while I bet a large factor against infantry soviet lists is.... well lot of people are probably turned off by the idea of painting a gazillion soviet infantry figs.
As for power gaming, despite what people like to think, it exists in pretty much every game, just some games are more obvious than others. Flames of War has the benefit of crazy large amount of army lists and build variations a person is capable of, in games with higher build restriction to army lists and less variety, the power levels will always become more apparent.
In some games certain builds/armies have an advantage over other armies, but they aren't unbeatable, while in some other games certain armies come off as just broken and unstoppable. A major factor also is how the matches are done in particular games. In 40k for example tournies often use the same standard missions which make it easy to build uber lists around, while other games have more objective and variable scenarios that mix things up, and help alleviates the planned cheese list as a person has to plan for everything.
If you hadn't read it, this was one of the more recent 2010 nationals results break down that does a good job breaking things down: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/07/flames-of-war-nationals-2010-where.html
Yea not one US list in the top 20 even.
As for power gaming, despite what people like to think, it exists in pretty much every game, just some games are more obvious than others. Flames of War has the benefit of crazy large amount of army lists and build variations a person is capable of, in games with higher build restriction to army lists and less variety, the power levels will always become more apparent.
In some games certain builds/armies have an advantage over other armies, but they aren't unbeatable, while in some other games certain armies come off as just broken and unstoppable. A major factor also is how the matches are done in particular games. In 40k for example tournies often use the same standard missions which make it easy to build uber lists around, while other games have more objective and variable scenarios that mix things up, and help alleviates the planned cheese list as a person has to plan for everything.
If you hadn't read it, this was one of the more recent 2010 nationals results break down that does a good job breaking things down: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2010/07/flames-of-war-nationals-2010-where.html
Yea not one US list in the top 20 even.

Kyle- Chaos God
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Registration date: 2008-11-03
Re: All armor tank companies.
No way, have him try that list against my FJ with their panzerfausts and it will hold it's own. My infantry will hold up just fine vs all those tanks. Ask Luis, dug in elite infantry are a pain in the butt.

Hurricane- Chaos God
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Re: All armor tank companies.
At our Regional FOW tournament a Russian All Tank army took 1st place.
However, his match ups were the best ones he could ask for.
Round 1: Faced a German Recon Company (vs. Russian tanks? yeah...)
Round 2: Faced a German Panzer Company (ended up 4-3 here)
Round 3: Faced Luis's Penal Battalion Company (lots of Tank MG versus infantry with little support...)
Really in FOW it comes down to matchups. I still firmly believe that any all tank list matched up against ANY paratrooper list from any nationality (American, British, or German) will get slaughtered. This is from experience not anything else.
No, I think the tournament scene is actually pretty mixed as far as what armies are winning and losing. It's really about who you are matched up against, because some armies are clearly designed to better face certain types of companies (like paratroopers having the close range AT due to lack of tank support, but lacking in numbers to repel a massive infantry horde).
However, his match ups were the best ones he could ask for.
Round 1: Faced a German Recon Company (vs. Russian tanks? yeah...)
Round 2: Faced a German Panzer Company (ended up 4-3 here)
Round 3: Faced Luis's Penal Battalion Company (lots of Tank MG versus infantry with little support...)
Really in FOW it comes down to matchups. I still firmly believe that any all tank list matched up against ANY paratrooper list from any nationality (American, British, or German) will get slaughtered. This is from experience not anything else.
No, I think the tournament scene is actually pretty mixed as far as what armies are winning and losing. It's really about who you are matched up against, because some armies are clearly designed to better face certain types of companies (like paratroopers having the close range AT due to lack of tank support, but lacking in numbers to repel a massive infantry horde).
scurrdi- Chaos God
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Re: All armor tank companies.
Like Dan said, it depends on the matchup and the mission. A full tank Company vs any elite infantry army would get owned. Is VERY hard to hit those bastards when they are dugged in, evrything is going against you:
1s-gotta hit, 2nd-he's gotta fail his 3+ save and 3rd-you gotta make a 6+ FP test, Very hard.
So whats the option ? get close with the tanks, and when you get close they have all those nice rape*tank weapons at their disposal.
Couple of times i have used my IS-3 company with NO infantry support, like 9 IS-3s..scary right ? Erick raped them cause if i miss a couple of armor saves here and there.. It Hurts, and when i got close he destroyed them in assault.
I used the same company with less tanks, some infantry and artillery support, and they did MUCH better against another opponent that had a Panzer/grenadier company.
Full tank company is a gamble, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.
1s-gotta hit, 2nd-he's gotta fail his 3+ save and 3rd-you gotta make a 6+ FP test, Very hard.
So whats the option ? get close with the tanks, and when you get close they have all those nice rape*tank weapons at their disposal.
Couple of times i have used my IS-3 company with NO infantry support, like 9 IS-3s..scary right ? Erick raped them cause if i miss a couple of armor saves here and there.. It Hurts, and when i got close he destroyed them in assault.
I used the same company with less tanks, some infantry and artillery support, and they did MUCH better against another opponent that had a Panzer/grenadier company.
Full tank company is a gamble, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt.
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luis the young- The Lord of Cuba

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Re: All armor tank companies.
This is good to hear. I didnt believe Tank Companies owned, but I figured I may be missing something.
_________________
"If your looking for sympathy get a dictionary...I think it falls between shit and syphilis".
Quote from unknown Italian Soldier..." Our armour is paper thin, our transport is non-existent but we have the best damned hats of any army in WWII!

rokassan- Internet bully
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Number of posts: 3581
Age: 37
Location: Miami
Armies: [40k]Chaos SpaceMarines,IG,Orks,Chaos Demons[FoW]MW-Italians,LW-Pnz.Gren(Grossdeutchland Div.),LW U.S.Para's,[Fantasy]Orc's [LotR] Easterling force,FoW-EW French force.(LW and MW) Hungarian Tank company.
Registration date: 2008-02-27

Re: All armor tank companies.
I like playing all tanks not because I think they are all powerful but because they are fun. You will not win every game but will have a competitive list. I have played tank on tank battles recently and the games were fun fast and furious. I like these type of games as a nice change from the infantry slug feast.
Motormanmpd- Cultist
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Re: All armor tank companies.
I finished up three 20mm flak halftracks,a King Tiger, an Elephant and a PanzerIVH today.
_________________
"If your looking for sympathy get a dictionary...I think it falls between shit and syphilis".
Quote from unknown Italian Soldier..." Our armour is paper thin, our transport is non-existent but we have the best damned hats of any army in WWII!

rokassan- Internet bully
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Number of posts: 3581
Age: 37
Location: Miami
Armies: [40k]Chaos SpaceMarines,IG,Orks,Chaos Demons[FoW]MW-Italians,LW-Pnz.Gren(Grossdeutchland Div.),LW U.S.Para's,[Fantasy]Orc's [LotR] Easterling force,FoW-EW French force.(LW and MW) Hungarian Tank company.
Registration date: 2008-02-27

Re: All armor tank companies.
I checked out the Nats article and the article showing the winners, etc. I didn't see any location where they show the actual lists that were played. Anyone know where to find them or is this a supposed to be secret.
jhope- Traitor Captain
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Re: All armor tank companies.
I don't think its a secret. It isn't hard to make a list, its probably harder to remember all the rules. It probably comes down to pairings and terrain in most tournaments.

KingdomCome- Chaos God
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Re: All armor tank companies.
It says what nationality they play, not what army list they play. Usually you can find out what folks are fielding by checking the FOW forums.
scurrdi- Chaos God
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Re: All armor tank companies.
Yes Americans suck. Yes it all comes down to match ups and terrain. But I'd rather move tons of tanks and roll for planes and lose than dig in my infantry and wait... and wait... and probably still lose. I just got bored of infantry. GO T-34s!

kosmos- Cultist
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Re: All armor tank companies.
I think lot of people like the simplicity of tank lists. They can be fairly versatile and it's just easier to play than infantry, as well as easier to build and paint vehicles. Tank companies seem to be what most people who get into the game like to gravitate to at first because of how much simpler it all is to put together a quick army... and it won't totally suck.

Kyle- Chaos God
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Registration date: 2008-11-03
Re: All armor tank companies.
Infantry companies don't suck. They just have to be supported properly. Combined arms is the name of the game. Alexs' paratroopers weren't bad, I just feel they were supported poorly. I enjoy playing infantry companies. Mainly because I like arty and time on target...

KingdomCome- Chaos God
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