Pre-read of new Dark Elf Book at GD

luis the young wrote:Just go the Mass repeater bolt trower route, you get what ? 2 for 1 ?? 4 bolt trowers shoudl be able to take out a monster or 2 a turn.

...you could squeeze in 6 terror-causing monsters. How about Lord or Level 4 caster on dragon, 3 heroes on manticores, 2 hydras, and then 3 core units with assassins in them? Doesn't that sound like fun?

Ovich wrote:yeah.. I guess the wood elves are starting to look a little "soft" again.

lordfairfax2001 wrote:

Ovich wrote:yeah.. I guess the wood elves are starting to look a little "soft" again.

Except for the Drycha list...especially with 2 Treemen! I think that list could take a DE monster list.

luis the young wrote:pfffft, i totally pwned drycha and her two treemen, ddint even break a sweat !

your poor son had "the" most horrible rolls in a game i have ever seen, he actually faile 6 LD 8 rolls in a row

lordfairfax2001 wrote:So I saw this conversation on another forum...what do you think???

Q: How many monsters can you fit in a new Dark Elf army? I imagine you can squeeze in 2 Hydras, but what about Dragons and Manticores? Can you put in more than one large Flyer?

A1: The Dreadlord can ride a Dragon and the Master (hero) can ride a Manticore.

A2: Mmmmm...2000 pts can get a dragon, a manitcore, a hydra, a hydra......Oh the Humanity...the Horror!....back it up with 3 units of repeater crossbowmen and 4 cold one chariots and I couldn't offend you any more than if I played with my Johnson hanging out.

Something tells me that a list with 3 models at T6 and one at T5, all of which cause terror and two of which fly will not be fun to play against. Even with ASF, the High Elves will get owned as they will never be able to hurt the models in question!

Dragons are a hero slot, Manticores are a hero slot if ridden by a hero, but not if ridden by a lord. It wasn't clear if Hellebron the Hag Queen's Manticore takes a slot, since she is neither technically a hero or a Dreadlord, but I don't expect you'll see her on one very often anyway, since she has no armor of any kind. She'll always be camped out in a unit, or with a BSB, carrying the always strike first banner, which sadly can only be taken by the BSB, Black Guard, or Cold One Knights.

Here's my general take: The core units are great. Balanced cost, and all effective at different aspects of the game. In fact, the core are so nice, I think the specials become fairly disappointing. Cold One Knights and Chariots will do what they always did, but Black Guard, Executioners, and Witch Elves really don't have a lot of promise in my mind. They only become functional with character/assassin help or the Cauldron of Blood. With the cauldron, Executioners and Witch Elves start to perform better. The Black Guard got cheaper and have better stats, but at the end of the day they are still poorly armored, not very hitty elves who simply die in place rather than run away. However, on subsequent rounds of combat and with certain magic banner set ups, a unit of Black Guard could really dish out some punishement. Well, S4 punishment....which used to be very good....what happened to this game?

the Shades....WS/BS 5 scouts with the new jazzy repeater crossbows AND great weapons......AND hatred.....for basically the same price as a High Elf scout....with no maximum unit size.....for shizzle my nizzle. At least 2 of your 4 special slots have just been filled, or you're a dumbass. With a Cauldron of Blood for support, yikes.

The Hydra is nifty, but it's not going to scare away units with static combat resolution, and it doesn't have the strength to take out heavy cav. It will be effective, but not horribly so.

Overall I think the list will remain a competitive MSU build, with tons of tiny units wielding crossbow and handcrossbow death, picking you apart and fleeing all over the place before a few elites come in to mop up. The army book has a huge capability for synergy between units, like the cauldron of blood, and characters/upgrades like the assassins. it will be much less autopilot than High Elves, but equally deadly in the hands of experienced players. It will definitely be one of those armies that opponents will need to learn to play against to be successful beating, just as much as the Dark Elf player will need to learn to play with them to be successful.

The MSU fiesta will be supported by everything from mixed groups of characters/Cauldron(s) to a vicious Sorceress lord with 2 minion sorceresses, saving the last spot for Shadowblade to gut an opponents spell caddy and insure you have magic dominance.

The Cauldron of Blood offers some great potential for Khainite armies, probably led by Hellebron, where every unit could be stubborn! But you'll invest over 200 pts in a cauldron, so maybe just take 2 to be safe! Too bad the current model sucks balls.

Overall I don't think this army book is in the same league as the Vampire Counts and Daemons, on psychology alone. Wood Elves will similarly give them fits, by utilizing a very similar playing style. I also don't think they can hold up against the High Elves in hand-to-hand, though they can probably reduce them to dust in the shooting phase without much trouble. It's a solid book, but I don't expect to see much griping about it. None of the special characters are over the top for their points, though I'm sure some people will have horror stories when armies hit the table with close to 1500 pts in characters/assassins, just because they can.

On to the list proper, with stolen text which I have added to:


7th Edition Dark Elves

Army Specific:

Eternal Hatred: Dark Elves hate everyone. Against High Elves this hatred continues in subsequent rounds of combat. Does effect mounts, just to be clear.

Khainite: Non-Khainite characters are unable to join Khainite units. Khainite characters are free to join non-Khainite units however. (Replaces Sect enmity)

Repeater Crossbows: 24" range, 2x multiple shots, Strength 3, Armour Piercing

Repeater Handbows: 8” range, 2x Multiple shots, Strength 3. May always stand and shoot, no modifiers for long range or moving. Can take 2 for 4x multiple shots (only on Corsair champion).

Magic:

Dark Elf Sorceresses are able to use Dark Magic or Lores of Shadow , Death , Fire and Metal .

Dark Elf Sorceresses no longer gain +1 to cast .

Dark Elf Sorceresses can use unlimited number of power dice to cast a spell.

Dark Magic:

*FREE SPELL* 4+ to cast, generates D3+1 Power Dice that can only be used by caster. Any dice unused cause Strength 4 hit on the caster.

1 – Chillwind 5+ D6 Strength 4 hits. Any casualties prevent shooting. 24"
2- Doombolt 6+ D6 Strength 5 hits. 18"
3 – Word of Pain 8+ Same as current
4 – Blade wind 8+ 3D6 WS4 S3 (?) attacks on unit within range (12”?).
5 – Soul Stealer 10+ 12” range, Each model takes Strength 2 hit, No Armour Saves. Wounds go to caster (no more than double).
6 – Black Horror 11+ Large template, Strength test or take a wound(no armor save).

Lords:

• Malekith
-Same deal as before, breaks magic items or destroys spells with successful hits, 2+ ward against anything non-magical, lvl 4 sorcerer that generates an extra power/dispell on top of that. magic shield that causes spells against him which are dispelled to inflict a S6 hit against the caster for every die used to cast it. Can ride dragon, chariot with 2+ armor sv, or Manticore
• Morathi
-Lvl 4, knows all spells from Dark magic. +1 to cast. Always rides Pegasus. Ward of some kind? Can also take 1 Enchanted and 1 Arcane item from the main list of gear.
• Crone Hellebron (If taken, Witch Elves count as Core)
-Can accompany a cauldron (probably never will). -1 attack to opponent in combat, weapon makes attacks S10. Frenzy. 6+d3 attacks all told, does a few other minor abilities, unit ignores outnumbering/flank/rear bonuses, causes Ld test on charge. Can dispell first spell against her unit on 4+ each turn? No defense of any kind that I saw, and I don't think she even strikes first.
• Dreadlord
• High Sorceress

Heroes:

• Malus
-over 2 bills in cost. Makes Cold One unit he joins not stupid. No armor saves sword. Can possess himself with daemon to go up WS, S, T, I for rest of game, but I think he becomes frenzy, and will attack his own unit if not in combat.
• Shadowblade
-Does what he always did, at his always high price. Deploys in any friendly/enemy infantry unit. roll a die every enemy turn. on 2+ he stays hidden, on one he appears and can't strike first. Standard Shadowblade kit, potion of strenth, heart of woe, bazillion Khaine abilities: killing blow, -1 attack to opponent in btb, doubles combat resolution in a challenge, thrown weapon attack, few other things.

-One other Corsair special character. Similar cost to Malus. Has extra attacks equal to opponent's rank bonus. Any enemy run down by him or his unit is worth double VP to the Dark Elves for the game, even if he dies later in the game!

• Sorceress
• “Master” -standard hero
• Hag Queen - can accompany cauldron for 100 pts and changeish. No apparent limit of number of Cauldrons?

Hags and other hero can be BSB. Hags can then still take 50 points of Khaine stuff.

Character Mounts:

Dragon: Takes a hero slot. Breath weapon wounds cause a -3 Ld test on the enemy unit or they can't CHARGE on the next turn. Specifically charge, not move.

Manticore: Still a mount option. Each turn has to pass a Ld test or becomes frenzied. If rider is killed it automatically suffers the “Raaargh” result – no test needed. Not a hero slot for a Dreadlord, but takes a slot for a Hero

Dark Pegasus: Sorceresses can now be mounted on Dark Pegasus.

Cauldron of Blood: 110pts mount for Hag Queen. No mention of being immobile, so can move. All Khainite units within 12” are stubborn. Each turn 1 unit within 24" can gain an ability from the list below:
• +1 Attack
• 5+ Ward Save
• Killing Blow
This cannot be stopped/dispelled and lasts until the start of the next DE players turn.

The Cauldron is Frenzy, poison, can't be destroyed by shooting, and gives the crew a 4+ ward save. But it counts as a war machine, so I take that to mean it can't march, or charge. So it can move 5" a turn, and not voluntarily engage in combat. If you take more than one, they can't stack blessings on the same unit.

Core:

Dark Elf Warriors: 6pts basic, Shields (1pt), can have magic banner (25pts). Spearmen only.
Dark Elf Crossbowmen: 10pts basic, Shields (1pt).
Corsairs: 10pts, can exchange 1 hand weapon for handbow for free, 2nd handbow costs 3pts, no shield option. Fleeing enemies roll 3D6 and use lowest. (Technically, I think they roll 2d6 to fell and then reroll the highest, but I'm not totally positive)
Dark Riders: 17pts basic, Repeater crossbows (5pts), Shields (1pt – no fast cavalry). Herald has BS5 and A2!
Harpies: Don’t count towards minimum core. 5-10. Don’t cause panic in friendly units, but can use generals leadership.

Assassin: Neither Core, nor Hero. 90pts, always hidden in unit (pretty much any DE infantry). Has poisoned attacks, 75pts allowed from Gifts of Khaine, Additional Hand Weapon 6pts, Repeater handbow 9pts. 1 per unit.

Special:

Witch Elves: 10pts, WS4, I6. 2 hand weapons, frenzied, poisoned attacks. (25 pt banner, Khainite, champ gets 25pts of Khaine gear)
Shades: 16pts, WS and BS5, can be upgraded to have 2 hand weapons or a great weapon. Can also take light armour.
Executioners: 12pts, S4, Great Weapons, Killing Blow. (25 pt banner, Khainite)
Cold One Knights: 27pts, 1A, Stupidity. (50 pt banner)
Cold one Chariot: 100pts, T5 3+ Armour Save, Ld 9.
Black Guard: 13pts, Stubborn, ItP, Ld 9. (50 pt banner, 2 attacks, but only S3 base before halberd)

I think black guard and execution champs can take magic items up to 25 pts

Special characters bought as Unit Champions.

Black Guard character has Crimson Death, and makes his unit unbreakable.
Executioner character makes his unit cause Fear. (If he kills an enemy in a challenge, he get +d3 combat resolution, but he only has 2 attacks).

Rare:

Reaper Bolt Thrower: 100pts, 2-for-1,
Hydra: 175pts, 5 wounds, Regeneration. Breath weapon has strength equal to number of wounds left. (Not a crazy monster. M6, S5, 5 attacks I think. You can't hit the minders with shooting at all, and you are forced to allocate attacks to the hyrda in hth if possible.)

Gifts of Khaine (main changes):

Shurikens: 3x Multiple Shots, Strength +1, 8”.
Rune of Khaine: +D3 attacks. (25 pts)
Venom Sword now Gift of Khaine (1 per army!) If you suffer a wound, you take a T test on 3d6 or die. Costs 75 pts, and can only be taken by an assassin.
Cloak containing Steed of Shadows bound spell. Power Level 3 (1 per army!). (30 pts, i think)

Also abilities to reduce opponent attacks by 1, ignore outnumbering/flank/rear bonus, cause Ld tests or be WS1 on charge. Everything in the 25-35 pts range.

Black Lotus: Re-roll 1’s to wound.
Dark Venom: All wounds caused in challenges (if enemy killed) are doubled for combat resolution.
Man Bane: makes your S 1 greater than opponent T up to S6.


Magic Items (changes to current items):

Deathmask now enchanted.
Seal of Ghrond now enchanted.
Crimson Death now cheaper (25pts).
Lifetaker now 30” range, Strength 4, 3x multiple shots, hits on 2+ (no re-roll to wound).
Armour of Darkness now 1+ (without shield).
Armour of Eternal Servitude: 35pts, Heavy Armour, Regen.
Ring of Hotek: 12” range.
Black Amulet: 70pts, 4+ Ward (against all attacks). Rebound in close combat.
Banner of Nagarythe: Cheaper, 125pts.
Dread Banner: Cheaper, 40pts.


Lots of new items!

Standard mix of really good, good, and bad items. Ones that stood out to me where:
-item that makes enemy wizard forget random spell, no way to avoid it
-Talisman that give ward save test against opponents strength. So S5 attacks against you means a 5 or less to save for your elfy. Can be stacked with armor, probably up to 1+, and still have room for weapons that would make a lord always S5-6, or a number or other things.
-one use only that give you the dragon breath attack and, i think, regenerate for a turn.
-one use only that makes the unit cause fear
-cheap magic weapons for always S6, or S5 armor piercing
-bound spell that cast dark power (plus d3+1 casting dice) on a 4+ (over 50 pts for the item)
-Item that halves opponents weapon skill
-Item that makes opponent reroll all successful hits.
-Arcane item that allows a caster to place a token within 6 inches of the model that is used for drawing line of sight and distance for spells. Very, very cool item when you start to think about it's applications.

Banners:
ASF banner (more than 25 pts, ergo not on any unit besides Black Guard and Cold one knights, or BSB)
Banner that lets unit reroll all missed shooting attacks once per game
Banner that adds D3 combat resolution if the unit charges.

Got my hands on the Dark Elf book today, so figured I would update the original poster's post.

Dark Magic:
3 – Word of Pain is 7+, not 8+
4 – Blade wind 8+ 3D6 WS4 S4 attacks on a visible unit within 24". Can allocate one attack to champion and any characters.
6 – Black Horror 11+ Large template, Strength test or take a wound(no armor save). 18" range. Does not have to target a model (can be placed anywhere on table within 18") and any wound causes a Panic test.

Lords:

• Malekith
-His magic Destroyer ability is only 50/50 (4+), and only once per round. 2+ ward against non-magical, and does not suffer multiple wounds from any attack., lvl 4 sorcerer that generates an extra power/dispell on top of that. Magic shield that causes spells against him which are dispelled to inflict a S6 hit against the caster for every die used to cast it, and gives MR2. Units within 12" pass panic tests automatically. Costs 600 _before_ any mounts.
• Morathi
-Lvl 4, knows all spells from Dark magic. +1 to cast. Always rides Pegasus. 4+ Ward and MR2. Can also take 1 Enchanted and 1 Arcane item from the main list of gear. Some low-powered close combat abilities/gear come standard. 455 pts.
• Crone Hellebron (If taken, Witch Elves count as Core)
Description above basically right (5+d3 instead of 6+d3 attacks). If she is general, Witch Elves are Core. If not, they remain Special, but all Khainites (Executioners/Witches) can use her leadership as if she were. 350 points for a massively damaging Lord who has T3, W3 and no defenses.
• Dreadlord (dragon mount costs extra hero slot)
• High Sorceress (dragon mount costs extra hero slot)

Heroes:

• Malus
-Sword rerolls wounds as well as ignoring armor. Bad ass, but like all 3 hero specials, he costs the same as a Lord (275 in his case) for a 2 wound character. Only extra defensive ability besides 3+ armor is to gain +2 T once he unleashes his frenzying ability.

Lokhir Fellheart
-Units run down by his unit count double VPs, even if he is killed. Terror, Regenerate, 4+ armor save, 3 S4 attacks + 1 attack per rank of enemy unit, rerolls wounds. Can also leap into base contact with the enemy within his unit. Again, pricey.

• “Master” -standard hero
-Manticore at hero level costs an extra hero slot.

Hag Queen w/ Cauldron is 200 points before any equipment. It's main ability is powerful (but reasonable for 200 points in my mind), namely giving one unit within 24" +1 attack (not mounts), killing blow, or 5+ ward. Executioners and Witch Elves within 12" are also stubborn. Provides a 4+ ward save to the Hag.

BSBs can be Masters or Hags. Magic banner = no magic items (Hag can take gifts, but not those gifts which are also magic items).

Core:
Corsairs: Only champion can take 2 handbows. Force reroll of highest D6 rolled for fleeing units.
Harpies: Unaffect by cauldron

Special:

Black Guard: Can always reroll hits, every round.
Black Guard and Witch Elf champions can take items/gifts of 25 points.

Character upgrades for Black Guard and Executioners. 75 points for BG, 90 for Executioner. Both are 1 wound with minimal defenses but decent attacks. Unbreakable from BG sounds impressive, but they're already Stubborn 9 with Immune to Psych.

Rare:

Hydra: M6 W4 St T5 W5 A7. 4+ armor and regeneration. Only Ld 8 though (6 without handlers).

Gifts of Khaine (main changes):
Rending Stars (shuriken) are 3x, S+1, 12". (30 pts)
Rune of Khaine: +D3 attacks. (25 pts)
Venom Sword is a 2d6 roll that must equal or under T or die, if it wounds.
5+ Ward is 30 points.

-item that makes enemy wizard forget random spell, no way to avoid it
Um, no. One use, they get a leadership on 3d6 to avoid.

-Talisman that give ward save test against opponents strength. So S5 attacks against you means a 5 or less to save for your elfy. Can be stacked with armor, probably up to 1+, and still have room for weapons that would make a lord always S5-6, or a number or other things.
You always fail on a 6, but yeah, this one strikes me as crazy powerful for 35 points. Also a 70 point 4+ ward that does a wound to attacker if it saves, and a 35 point Heavy Armour with Regenerate.

-one use only that give you the dragon breath attack and, i think, regenerate for a turn.
T6, not regenerate.

-one use only that makes the unit cause fear
Several variants. One gives character terror, one gives unit Immune to psych, one gives unit Fear for one turn.

-cheap magic weapons for always S6, or S5 armor piercing
Lots of good basic weapons.

-bound spell that cast dark power (plus d3+1 casting dice) on a 4+ (over 50 pts for the item)
Yeah, 55 points.

-Item that halves opponents weapon skill
Only if attacks are directed at the character. But also halves BS aimed at character or his unit.

-Item that makes opponent reroll all successful hits.
Could not find that one in the list.

-Arcane item that allows a caster to place a token within 6 inches of the model that is used for drawing line of sight and distance for spells. Very, very cool item when you start to think about it's applications.
And in classic GW manner, the wording is vague enough that some will try to argue you can use previous turns' tokens, even though it seems intended to be otherwise.

Won't go into other magic items too much, except for banners:
-125 for +1 combat within 12", and unit is Unbreakable.
-75 points for +1 attack, including to mounts. Seems good for a classic mounted BSB in knights formation to me, and probably only one worth sacrificing ability to take magic items on the BSB.
-40 points for Fear.
-35 points for +d3 combat rez. Seems great for BG.
-35 points for unit gaining ASF. Again, great for BG.
-25 points for Frenzy, Corsairs only.
-25 points for armor piercing
-15 points for a one use Lizardman style Leadership tests for the turn (3d6 drop highest). Handy for Cold Ones to help mitigate Stupidity on that one critical turn.

luis the young wrote:Not bad, sounds like it will be an interestign army to face, i like it how every new book is compared to the Vampire Counts book and how is not as broken.